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Post-Betrayal Transformation - Dr. Debi Silber

Post-Betrayal Transformation - Dr. Debi Silber

Wow! What a journey this conversation will take you on. Most everyone on the planet has experienced betrayal at some time in life so this dialogue will resonate with you. Debi has a doctorate in Transformational Psychology. She learned the “betrayal symptoms” and the five stages of overcoming those symptoms. There is so much to learn from Debi. She went to school for her doctorate looking to heal herself from her own betrayal experiences. If her description of the five stages of healing causes you to realize why you may be stuck you will probably want to reach out to her. Here’s how:

www.thepbtinstitute.com

Books: The Unshakable Woman – 4 Steps to Rebuilding Your Body, Mind, and Life After a Life Crisis

Trust Again – Overcoming Betrayal and Regaining Health, Confidence, and Happiness

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.600 --> 00:00:07.400 Hey, Dr g here. Thank you for listening to moving upstream without a 2 00:00:07.400 --> 00:00:11.160 paddle. I would like to work with businesses, authors, coaches and the 3 00:00:11.320 --> 00:00:16.039 like who understand the importance of shifting perspectives to obtain the results we're looking for, 4 00:00:16.760 --> 00:00:20.239 and pleased to announce that moving up stream without a paddle is now offering 5 00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:25.160 commercial spots to be aired during the episodes. If you believe your organization would 6 00:00:25.199 --> 00:00:29.239 benefit from advertising on the PODCAST, I would love to have you be a 7 00:00:29.280 --> 00:00:34.240 part of this continuously growing show. Let's get connected and inspire the world together. 8 00:00:38.439 --> 00:00:41.920 But what's so interesting is we've all heard time heals all wounds. I 9 00:00:42.000 --> 00:00:44.600 have the proof that, when it comes to betrayal, that's simply not true. 10 00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:48.799 Um, there's a question that says is there anything else you'd like to 11 00:00:48.840 --> 00:00:53.280 share, and people write things like my betrayal happened forty years ago and I 12 00:00:53.320 --> 00:00:57.799 can still feel the hate. Hello, everybody, welcome back. Um. 13 00:00:57.840 --> 00:01:03.679 Today I have a very interesting guests that I'm excited to jump into a conversation 14 00:01:03.759 --> 00:01:07.439 with. Her name is Dr Debbie Silber and she is the founder of the 15 00:01:07.519 --> 00:01:14.760 Post Betrayal Transformation Institute. Um. She is a holistic psychologist. The health 16 00:01:15.280 --> 00:01:19.840 mindset and personal development expert and the author of the number one bestselling book, 17 00:01:19.359 --> 00:01:25.799 the Unshakable Woman, I'm sorry, the unshakable woman, the four steps to 18 00:01:25.879 --> 00:01:30.920 rebuilding your body, mind and life after a life crisis. And she she 19 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:34.439 has her newest book trust again, overcoming betrayal and regaining health, confidence and 20 00:01:34.480 --> 00:01:41.560 happiness. Her recent Ph d study, which is really what's intriguing mem on 21 00:01:41.640 --> 00:01:48.079 how we experienced betrayal, has made three groundbreaking discoveries that changes how long it 22 00:01:48.120 --> 00:01:53.359 takes to heal. In addition to being on on Fox cybs, the doctor 23 00:01:53.439 --> 00:02:00.280 as show and twice as a Ted x speaker, she is in the award 24 00:02:00.319 --> 00:02:04.719 winning speaker, coach and author dedicated to helping people move path through betrayals as 25 00:02:04.719 --> 00:02:08.520 well as, uh any other blocks preventing them from the health, work, 26 00:02:08.520 --> 00:02:14.120 relationship, confidence and happiness that they want most and, like I said, 27 00:02:14.159 --> 00:02:16.800 just just an amazing woman. There's just so much here and I can't wait 28 00:02:16.840 --> 00:02:21.800 to really get the backstory and all this and to really dive in the conversation, 29 00:02:21.879 --> 00:02:25.680 and that's going to come up right after this. Welcome to moving up 30 00:02:25.719 --> 00:02:30.639 stream without a pad, the podcast that helps develop a mindset for success. 31 00:02:30.039 --> 00:02:34.520 I'm your host, Dr Garrett Coggins, but most people call me Dr g. 32 00:02:35.199 --> 00:02:38.759 Now dedicated my life to helping others understand that if you have the proper 33 00:02:38.840 --> 00:02:45.199 mindset, you can propel yourself up that proverbial stream with no paddle needing. 34 00:02:45.840 --> 00:02:50.080 After constantly feeling like you're going against the flow, but you're never happy with 35 00:02:50.120 --> 00:02:53.680 your results, it's really time to flip your mindset. If that's something that 36 00:02:53.719 --> 00:02:58.479 you're ready to do, you've come to the right place. Now let's get 37 00:02:58.520 --> 00:03:16.560 to it. Hello, Dr Sober, welcome to the show. Thank you 38 00:03:16.639 --> 00:03:21.520 so much. Debbie is totally fine. Okay, yeah, you never know. 39 00:03:21.599 --> 00:03:23.759 I'm okay with Garrett. I actually prefer Garrett instead of Dr U, 40 00:03:24.520 --> 00:03:29.479 but you never know with people. So that's great. I'm so excited really 41 00:03:29.520 --> 00:03:34.039 to to jump in on this with you, because I feel like everybody has 42 00:03:34.080 --> 00:03:37.560 gone through betrayal at some point in their life and some people hang onto it, 43 00:03:37.639 --> 00:03:40.599 some people can let it go and Um, and then just your study 44 00:03:40.639 --> 00:03:44.439 on the aspect, it's just very intriguing for me. So, if you 45 00:03:44.479 --> 00:03:46.960 don't mind, though, I always like to start the show off by giving 46 00:03:47.000 --> 00:03:52.000 you center stage and letting you just kind of give the backstory of what you 47 00:03:52.039 --> 00:03:53.840 know. We sort of understand what you do, but maybe you can dive 48 00:03:53.879 --> 00:03:57.080 deeper into that and why you do it and how you got there. So 49 00:03:57.159 --> 00:04:00.560 if you don't mind, just go ahead and take it away, of course. 50 00:04:00.560 --> 00:04:01.400 Well, first of all, thank you for having me. I'm really 51 00:04:01.400 --> 00:04:05.879 looking forward to this conversation myself. It's actually my thirtieth year in business and 52 00:04:05.919 --> 00:04:11.520 as life would morph and change, so in business and I was in health 53 00:04:11.520 --> 00:04:16.399 and mindset and personal development for forever. And then I had my own experience 54 00:04:16.399 --> 00:04:20.240 with betrayal. First it was my family and I thought I did the work 55 00:04:20.279 --> 00:04:24.560 I needed to do to heal, and then it happened again and this time 56 00:04:24.560 --> 00:04:27.439 it was my husband's. So I got him out of the House and I 57 00:04:27.480 --> 00:04:30.720 looked at it and I said, okay, what's similar to these two experiences 58 00:04:30.879 --> 00:04:34.319 besides me? Uh, and I realized I had never really taken my own 59 00:04:34.360 --> 00:04:40.199 needs seriously. Boundaries were always getting crossed, and so I made a decision, 60 00:04:40.199 --> 00:04:44.319 and I had four kids and six dogs in this thriving business and I 61 00:04:44.360 --> 00:04:47.000 said that's it, we're going back for a PhD. I had no idea 62 00:04:47.399 --> 00:04:50.360 how I was going to pay for it, manage it, any of it 63 00:04:50.480 --> 00:04:57.519 but I just knew something dramatic had to change. I was truly just desperate 64 00:04:57.639 --> 00:05:00.120 to understand how the mind works and why people do these things and how it 65 00:05:00.160 --> 00:05:04.519 can heal. So I I enrolled in a program. It was a PhD 66 00:05:04.560 --> 00:05:10.519 in Trans Personal Psychology, psychology of transformation and human potential, and while I 67 00:05:10.560 --> 00:05:14.279 was there he did a study. I studied betrayal, what holds us back, 68 00:05:14.560 --> 00:05:18.199 what helps us heal and what happens to US physically, mentally and emotionally 69 00:05:18.399 --> 00:05:23.199 when the people closest to us lie, cheat and deceived. So that steady 70 00:05:23.279 --> 00:05:28.319 led to three groundbreaking discoveries which changed my health, my family and my business, 71 00:05:28.399 --> 00:05:35.079 my life. That's yeah, so, uh, there's so many places 72 00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:39.839 I want to go because I I know that I have gone through two marriages 73 00:05:39.879 --> 00:05:44.439 because of betrayal and I think a lot of times what I felt, at 74 00:05:44.480 --> 00:05:48.199 least in some some relationships, what I felt was a betrayal towards me wasn't 75 00:05:48.240 --> 00:05:53.839 actually what the intention was, but it was something that I took on and 76 00:05:54.079 --> 00:05:58.560 Um but it took me that, my first one, took me my first 77 00:05:58.759 --> 00:06:02.319 I was years. It was years afterwards that I held on to whatever it 78 00:06:02.399 --> 00:06:08.639 was I was holding on too, and and I think that's so when I 79 00:06:08.639 --> 00:06:12.600 got into your PhD study and how you looked at that and the time it 80 00:06:12.639 --> 00:06:15.360 takes. So can we just start there for some reason, because that's really 81 00:06:15.399 --> 00:06:18.120 like it's resonating with me and I think it's going to resonate with a lot 82 00:06:18.160 --> 00:06:21.680 of people. So let's talk about that that minor time in that process. 83 00:06:23.000 --> 00:06:26.000 Sure, and here's the thing, and I'll just back up a little bit. 84 00:06:26.040 --> 00:06:29.519 You know, I defined betrayal as the breaking of any spoken or unspoken 85 00:06:29.600 --> 00:06:34.240 rule, and every single relationship has them and it's without our awareness or consent 86 00:06:34.399 --> 00:06:39.360 when the other person chooses to break that unspoken or spoken rule as a betrayal. 87 00:06:39.519 --> 00:06:42.639 And the way it works is the more we trust and depend on someone, 88 00:06:43.160 --> 00:06:45.839 the deeper the betrayal. So, for example, a child who is 89 00:06:45.879 --> 00:06:48.480 completely dependent on their parent and then the parent of something awful. That's going 90 00:06:48.519 --> 00:06:51.319 to have a different impact than, let's say, your coworker taking credit for 91 00:06:51.360 --> 00:06:57.319 your idea. Still a betrayal, different level of cleanup needed in its wake. 92 00:06:57.759 --> 00:07:01.879 But to answer your question, Um, that actually reminds me of the 93 00:07:01.879 --> 00:07:06.759 third stage when you when we talk about the timing. One of the discoveries 94 00:07:06.839 --> 00:07:12.000 was that, while we can stay stuck for years, decades, a lifetime, 95 00:07:12.040 --> 00:07:15.720 and so many of us do, if we're going to fully heal, 96 00:07:15.160 --> 00:07:19.319 we're gonna move through now five proven, predictable stages. And what's even more 97 00:07:19.360 --> 00:07:25.079 exciting about that is we now know what happens at every stage, physically, 98 00:07:25.160 --> 00:07:29.759 mentally and emotionally, and we know what it takes to move from one stage 99 00:07:29.800 --> 00:07:33.600 to the next. So what that means is now healing is predictable, because 100 00:07:33.600 --> 00:07:38.360 if someone is first of all aware that there are these stages, and I'm 101 00:07:38.399 --> 00:07:41.959 happy to share them, and then they're willing to move through them, they 102 00:07:41.959 --> 00:07:47.160 will predictably go from this place of symptoms of Post Betrayal Syndrome, happy to 103 00:07:47.160 --> 00:07:53.199 talk about that, to this fully healed state called post betrayal transformation, and 104 00:07:53.240 --> 00:07:57.079 I can talk about that too. So the timeline of it has so much 105 00:07:57.160 --> 00:08:03.360 to do with where someone is in the stage and their willingness to move forward. 106 00:08:03.399 --> 00:08:05.639 And there were even three groups in the study who did not heal, 107 00:08:07.360 --> 00:08:09.879 and and I can share what that is as well. You know what those 108 00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:13.079 groups did as well. Yeah, well, okay, well then, let's 109 00:08:13.120 --> 00:08:16.000 let's start at the beginning, because I feel like if we're gonna do the 110 00:08:16.079 --> 00:08:16.920 change, if we're gonna go through that, we have to start at the 111 00:08:16.920 --> 00:08:20.959 beginning and that's the awareness. So what? Let's look at the symptoms, 112 00:08:20.079 --> 00:08:26.000 because sure we may be holding onto things that we don't even understand what that 113 00:08:26.160 --> 00:08:28.720 is. And so if we can go through the symptoms, and so we'll 114 00:08:28.720 --> 00:08:31.240 start there. Yeah, so that that was actually one of the discoveries, 115 00:08:31.279 --> 00:08:37.480 that there's this collection of symptoms, physical, mental and emotional, so common 116 00:08:37.519 --> 00:08:41.840 to betrayal. It's now known as Post Betrayal Syndrome and we have a quiz 117 00:08:41.879 --> 00:08:45.000 on the site to see to what extent people are struggling. We've easily had 118 00:08:45.000 --> 00:08:50.759 over people take it and, Um, what's so interesting to this? Uh, 119 00:08:50.799 --> 00:08:54.519 the data that we're getting is just incredible. But what's so interesting is 120 00:08:54.679 --> 00:08:56.759 we've all heard time heals all wounds. I have the proof that when it 121 00:08:56.799 --> 00:09:01.159 comes to betrayal, that's simply not true. There's a question that says, 122 00:09:01.320 --> 00:09:05.799 is there anything else you'd like to share, and people write things like my 123 00:09:05.840 --> 00:09:09.879 betrayal happened forty years ago and I can still feel the hate. My betrayal 124 00:09:09.960 --> 00:09:13.559 happened thirty five years ago. I'm unwilling to trust again. My betrayal happened 125 00:09:13.559 --> 00:09:16.679 ten years ago. It feels like it happened yesterday. So we know when 126 00:09:16.679 --> 00:09:18.759 it relates to betrayal. When it comes to betrayal, very different type of 127 00:09:18.759 --> 00:09:24.399 protocol is needed to heal. But actually every couple of months I pulled the 128 00:09:24.440 --> 00:09:28.559 stats of the you know, if everybody who's taken the quiz, every age, 129 00:09:28.720 --> 00:09:31.559 every demographic, almost every country is represented. If you want me to 130 00:09:31.639 --> 00:09:35.960 share some, I'm happy to. Yeah, my all means, go for 131 00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:39.600 it. Sure. So this is for those who have taken the Post Betrayal 132 00:09:39.600 --> 00:09:48.279 Syndrome quiz. Seventy eight percent constantly revisit their experience feel a loss of personal 133 00:09:48.320 --> 00:09:52.919 power. Eighty percent or hyper vigilant. That's just exhausting right there. Pent 134 00:09:54.360 --> 00:10:01.279 deal with painful triggers. Here are the most common physical symptoms of low energy. 135 00:10:01.559 --> 00:10:05.960 Sixty eight percent have sleep issues. Sixty three percent have extreme fatigues. 136 00:10:05.000 --> 00:10:09.720 You can sleep a whole night long wake up in your exhausted. Forty seven 137 00:10:09.799 --> 00:10:11.919 percent have weight changes. So in the beginning maybe you can't hold food down, 138 00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:16.440 later on you use food for comfort. For percent have digestive issues, 139 00:10:16.519 --> 00:10:22.799 anything IBS, Crohn's, constipation, diarrhea, you name it. Um some 140 00:10:22.840 --> 00:10:26.759 of the most common mental symptoms. Seventy eight percent are overwhelmed. Seventy percent 141 00:10:26.840 --> 00:10:31.240 are walking around in a state of disbelief. Sixty eight percent are unable to 142 00:10:31.279 --> 00:10:35.600 focus. Sixty four percent or in shock. Sixty are unable to concentrate. 143 00:10:35.799 --> 00:10:41.559 So take an inability to concentrate a gut issue and you're exhausted. That's not 144 00:10:41.600 --> 00:10:48.399 even the emotional issues. Emotionally, eighty eight percent experience extreme sadness. Eight 145 00:10:48.639 --> 00:10:52.399 three percent are angry. So just mix anger and sadness and you can sense 146 00:10:52.440 --> 00:10:58.000 how lethal that combination can be. Eighty two percent or heart. Eighty percent 147 00:10:58.039 --> 00:11:01.440 have anxiety. Seventy nine percent or trust. Here's why I wrote the book. 148 00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:07.639 Trust again ready, eighty four percent have an inability to trust. Sixty 149 00:11:07.159 --> 00:11:11.200 percent prevent themselves from forming deep relationships because they're afraid of being hurt again. 150 00:11:13.320 --> 00:11:16.240 Find it hard to move forward. Want to move forward, but they don't 151 00:11:16.240 --> 00:11:22.320 know how. Yeah, and that last one I can understand because I feel 152 00:11:22.360 --> 00:11:24.759 like in my and there was a lot of awareness and in my aspect a 153 00:11:24.759 --> 00:11:28.720 lot of just internal things that I went through, but a lot of some 154 00:11:28.799 --> 00:11:35.440 self discovery. But but it's interesting because a lot of things that you were 155 00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:37.720 saying there and I was tying into my first my first divorce. Brought that 156 00:11:37.759 --> 00:11:43.240 into my second marriage and this this inability to trust, in this inability to 157 00:11:43.000 --> 00:11:48.440 fully give myself to that relationship, because I was holding onto things from the 158 00:11:48.480 --> 00:11:52.639 previous one and little triggers are going and this got me in troublesome so many 159 00:11:52.639 --> 00:11:56.600 times. Oh well, that's something might ex used to do and it was 160 00:11:56.639 --> 00:11:58.879 like, oh, but I'm not your ex but but you're holding onto this, 161 00:12:00.279 --> 00:12:05.279 to the stuff, and I wanted so desperately to move past that. 162 00:12:05.639 --> 00:12:11.919 and Um, so that makes just makes complete and total sense to me. 163 00:12:11.000 --> 00:12:15.919 So, but you're saying then, that there's there's a process that we have 164 00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:20.600 to go through to really make that happen. Can can you just talk about 165 00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:22.360 that for a little bit? Sure, I can talk about the stages and 166 00:12:22.360 --> 00:12:26.960 and even the fourth step, trust rebuilding process. We teach its intrust again, 167 00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:30.519 but it's it's what we teach. So the five stages that I mean, 168 00:12:30.600 --> 00:12:33.279 that's what's mapped out. And Trust again. And and just so you 169 00:12:33.320 --> 00:12:37.039 know, that book is really the dissertation, but I was like, you 170 00:12:37.080 --> 00:12:43.519 know, I only have three the committee reading this and I spent five hundred 171 00:12:43.840 --> 00:12:48.039 plus hours and two hundred fifty studies. There's no chance only three people are 172 00:12:48.080 --> 00:12:52.799 reading this thing. So I mean much more reader friendly and that's what trust 173 00:12:52.840 --> 00:12:56.039 again is. But it actually I have the five stages in there. I 174 00:12:56.120 --> 00:12:58.960 walk you through them with experiential exercises. We have the study participate stories, 175 00:13:00.080 --> 00:13:03.320 my story. It's all in there anyway. So the here are the five 176 00:13:03.360 --> 00:13:09.879 stages boiled down. The first stage is like a set up stage and it's 177 00:13:09.919 --> 00:13:13.639 just what I saw consistently with everybody, me too. If you imagine four 178 00:13:13.720 --> 00:13:18.720 legs of a table, the four legs being physical, mental, emotional and 179 00:13:18.759 --> 00:13:22.919 spiritual, what I saw with everybody was this real heavy lean on the physical 180 00:13:22.960 --> 00:13:28.919 and mental and kind of neglecting or ignoring the emotional and the spiritual. So 181 00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:31.720 what does that look like? Looks like we're really good at thinking and doing 182 00:13:31.080 --> 00:13:35.799 and not really prioritizing the feeling and being. Feeling and being is where intuition 183 00:13:35.879 --> 00:13:39.960 lies. We turned that down. That's not to say if you're thinking and 184 00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:41.960 doing, if you're just really busy, you're going to be betrayed. It 185 00:13:43.039 --> 00:13:46.960 was just what I consistently saw. Stage two. This is by far the 186 00:13:48.080 --> 00:13:52.879 scariest stage. This is, uh, the shock. This is like where 187 00:13:52.879 --> 00:13:56.080 the person you know takes the mask off and reveals who they've been that whole 188 00:13:56.120 --> 00:13:58.840 time. It's the breakdown of the body, the mind and the world view. 189 00:14:00.399 --> 00:14:03.519 So right here is where you have ignited the stress response. You're now 190 00:14:03.559 --> 00:14:09.600 headed for every single stress related symptom, illness, condition disease. Your mind 191 00:14:09.799 --> 00:14:13.559 is in a complete and total state of chaos and overwhelmed. You cannot wrap 192 00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:16.759 your mind around the information you just learned. This makes no sense and your 193 00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:22.039 world view is shattered. Your world view is your mental model, the rules 194 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:26.600 of the world that prevent chaos. Don't go there. This person is okay, 195 00:14:26.799 --> 00:14:31.399 trust this person you know and in a moment, everything you've held to 196 00:14:31.399 --> 00:14:35.519 to be true, everything you've known and believed in, is no longer bottom 197 00:14:35.559 --> 00:14:39.559 has truly bottomed down on you here, and it's terrifying. But think about 198 00:14:39.559 --> 00:14:43.159 it. If the bottom were to bottom out on you, what would you 199 00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:46.519 do? Well, you would grab hold of anything or anything you could right 200 00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:50.120 to stay safe and stay alive. In that stage, three survival instincts emerge. 201 00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:54.639 It's the most practical of all of the stages. If you can't help 202 00:14:54.679 --> 00:14:56.559 me, get out of my way. How do I survive this experience? 203 00:14:56.639 --> 00:15:00.200 WHO CAN I trust? Where do I go? How do I fee my 204 00:15:00.320 --> 00:15:03.960 kids? Like? It's the most practical of all of the stages. Here's 205 00:15:03.039 --> 00:15:07.639 the trap, and this is why this is the stage we get stuck in. 206 00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:11.720 Once we figured out how to survive right, we figured it out, 207 00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:18.840 we're like because it feels so much better than the shock and trauma of where 208 00:15:18.840 --> 00:15:24.039 we just came from. We think it's good. We're not meant to stay 209 00:15:24.159 --> 00:15:28.759 here, but we don't know there's a stage four, stage five. Transformation 210 00:15:28.799 --> 00:15:35.279 doesn't even begin until stage four. So a few things happen. The first 211 00:15:35.320 --> 00:15:39.399 thing is we start planting some roots here because, like I said, we 212 00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:43.080 don't know there's anything better, and so we start getting these small self benefits. 213 00:15:43.360 --> 00:15:46.639 You get to be right, you get someone blame, you get a 214 00:15:46.679 --> 00:15:50.679 target for your anger, you get sympathy from everybody to tell your story to. 215 00:15:52.399 --> 00:15:54.120 You don't have to do the hard work of learning to trust again. 216 00:15:54.120 --> 00:15:58.200 Do I trust you? Do I trust your Africa? I'm not trusting anybody. 217 00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:02.240 And you plant deeper roots because you're there longer than you need to. 218 00:16:02.320 --> 00:16:04.000 Now the mind starts doing things like, well, maybe you deserved it. 219 00:16:04.240 --> 00:16:07.200 Maybe you're not all that great, maybe this, maybe that. And you're 220 00:16:07.200 --> 00:16:11.039 planting deeper roots. And now you know, because like energy, attracts like 221 00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:15.960 energy. And this is what you're thinking and how your mind is going. 222 00:16:15.639 --> 00:16:22.320 Now you're attracting people and circumstances and relationships towards you to confirm this is exactly 223 00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:26.360 where you belong. This is the misery loves company crowd right here. So 224 00:16:26.440 --> 00:16:30.559 now you plant deeper roots. Here's what happens last because you don't like it, 225 00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:34.399 but you have no idea there's anything better. And this is what you've 226 00:16:34.519 --> 00:16:40.320 you've been creating. You resign yourself to thinking, well, I better figure 227 00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:44.000 out a way to be okay with this. So right here is where you 228 00:16:44.039 --> 00:16:48.559 start using food, drugs, alcohol, work, TV, keeping busy, 229 00:16:48.600 --> 00:16:52.240 reckless behavior, to numb, avoid, distract yourself from what's people to feel 230 00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:53.120 our face. So think about it. You do it for a day, 231 00:16:53.159 --> 00:16:56.039 a week, a month. Now to have it a year, ten years, 232 00:16:56.039 --> 00:16:59.639 twenty years, and I can see someone twenty years out and say, 233 00:16:59.639 --> 00:17:02.399 you know what that emotional leading you're doing, where that drinking you're doing? 234 00:17:02.399 --> 00:17:06.480 Where that numbing in front of the TV? Do you think that has anything 235 00:17:06.519 --> 00:17:08.799 to do with your betrayal and they would look at me like I'm crazy and 236 00:17:08.799 --> 00:17:14.960 they would happened twenty years ago doesn't matter. You see, they were in 237 00:17:15.319 --> 00:17:22.319 a perpetual stage three holding pattern. Any questions, but it's all making sense 238 00:17:22.359 --> 00:17:26.279 to me. So yeah, because and I can see, I can see 239 00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:30.400 the spiral and I'm just understanding the thought process then the way I do now. 240 00:17:30.119 --> 00:17:33.759 Um, it's always hindsights, always twenty. So I can go back, 241 00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:38.039 and I've done this just in my own time, just looking at Oh, 242 00:17:38.079 --> 00:17:41.599 and I see where I was stuck into this and that and I kept 243 00:17:41.640 --> 00:17:45.279 myself into this, in this position and and pushing people away. And so 244 00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:49.319 it makes complete sense. And so, you know, if I had met 245 00:17:49.359 --> 00:17:55.079 you ten years ago, you know, maybe the four and five steps was 246 00:17:55.279 --> 00:17:57.680 I'm anxious to hear about and to see if if I'm applied those properly, 247 00:17:59.039 --> 00:18:02.079 if I you know, because we'll look at that. But I think that 248 00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:04.240 you're right. This is where people are and this is where it's that feeling 249 00:18:04.279 --> 00:18:08.200 of being stuck and they have no idea why, they just and and I 250 00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:11.440 love how you said that, that it it does become a habit. But 251 00:18:11.680 --> 00:18:17.839 I like how you said in the beginning that it made sense because we were 252 00:18:17.880 --> 00:18:22.400 able to to put blame and we were able to do all those things that 253 00:18:22.440 --> 00:18:26.920 made us feel better, but then it was detrimental to us at the same 254 00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:30.559 time. Hud I mean, and that's exactly why we have the PBT institute 255 00:18:30.599 --> 00:18:34.960 where, you know, we're walking, we're we're we're getting helping people make 256 00:18:36.079 --> 00:18:40.640 sense and eventually meaning out of the senseless and showing them where they are, 257 00:18:40.680 --> 00:18:45.359 because it really is. It is so easy to get stuck in that stage 258 00:18:45.400 --> 00:18:48.960 three and we don't even realize it. And that part here's the thing. 259 00:18:48.119 --> 00:18:52.480 That person may not know or even care what they did. And look at 260 00:18:52.519 --> 00:18:59.480 the life we can really live because of what we're doing at this point to 261 00:18:59.519 --> 00:19:03.640 ourselves, because we're remaining stuck and we and listen, it's not our fault. 262 00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:07.160 We don't know. We don't know there's a stage four, in stage 263 00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:10.079 five. But that's why I'm so grateful to have you. Know that, 264 00:19:10.359 --> 00:19:12.079 to have people like you, so I can share these stories. You know 265 00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:17.200 what the stages are, so people can learn anyway. So if you're willing, 266 00:19:17.839 --> 00:19:19.400 willingness is a huge word here, if you are willing to let go 267 00:19:21.079 --> 00:19:25.680 of those small self benefits. You are willing to let go of your story 268 00:19:26.039 --> 00:19:27.839 and everything that goes along with it. You have to grieve. You have 269 00:19:27.880 --> 00:19:30.960 to more than the last bunch of things you need to do. You move 270 00:19:30.039 --> 00:19:34.559 to stage four. Stage four is finding and adjusting to a new normal. 271 00:19:36.079 --> 00:19:40.839 Here's where you acknowledge I can't undo my betrayal, but I can control what 272 00:19:40.920 --> 00:19:44.279 I do with it. And I always use the example of if you've ever 273 00:19:44.319 --> 00:19:47.359 moved to a new house, office, kind of apartment, whatever. Your 274 00:19:47.359 --> 00:19:49.000 stuff is not there, it's not quite cozy yet, but you know it's 275 00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:52.880 gonna be okay. And when you're in this position, you start to turn 276 00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:57.440 down the stress response. You're not healing just yet, but here's where you're 277 00:19:57.480 --> 00:20:02.839 not creating the mass have damage you were causing in Stage two. In Stage 278 00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:07.559 three, your mind starts to heal. You're making some sense out of this. 279 00:20:07.640 --> 00:20:10.920 You're you're you're putting new boundaries in place, like it's you. You're 280 00:20:11.000 --> 00:20:14.240 you're sort of you're you're coming out of it. You're learning and you have 281 00:20:14.279 --> 00:20:18.400 a new you know and you're you're also, this is what's so interesting to 282 00:20:18.440 --> 00:20:22.319 this stage. If you were to move, you don't necessarily take everything with 283 00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:29.680 you, and what I saw with everybody was if your friends weren't there for 284 00:20:29.839 --> 00:20:33.559 you or that misery loves company, crowd, you don't take them with you. 285 00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:37.000 Right here, you've outgrown them. And people say all the time what 286 00:20:37.039 --> 00:20:38.240 the heck? I've had these friends for ten, twenty, thirty years? 287 00:20:38.279 --> 00:20:42.000 Is it me? Yes, it is. You're undergoing a transformation and if 288 00:20:42.039 --> 00:20:45.920 they're not the right people, you're going to outgrow them right here. Very 289 00:20:45.960 --> 00:20:51.680 common anyway. When you settle into this space, you make it cozy, 290 00:20:51.720 --> 00:20:55.440 you're making it home. You can move into the fifth most beautiful stage, 291 00:20:55.440 --> 00:21:00.160 and this is healing, rebirth and a new worldview. The body starts to 292 00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:03.039 heal self, love self, care, eating well, exercise. You didn't 293 00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:07.759 have the bandwidth for that earlier. Now you do. Your mind starts to 294 00:21:07.839 --> 00:21:12.799 heal. New Boundaries, New Perspective, knew everything and a new a new 295 00:21:12.799 --> 00:21:18.759 worldview. You Um you look back at the road you just traveled and you've 296 00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:22.000 learned so much and you see it all so clearly and the four legs of 297 00:21:22.039 --> 00:21:23.640 the table. Remember, in the beginning it was just the physical and the 298 00:21:23.640 --> 00:21:29.599 mental. By this point we're so solidly grounded because we're focused on the emotional 299 00:21:29.640 --> 00:21:32.960 and the spiritual too. Those are the five stages. And Yeah, and 300 00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:40.720 that's the holistic piece. was so important in in in my recovery on that. 301 00:21:41.119 --> 00:21:45.799 But so the the not bringing people with you. That's an important and 302 00:21:45.640 --> 00:21:53.240 people. I think today mindset and positivity and all this stuff are are they're 303 00:21:53.240 --> 00:21:56.920 they're just used right. It's it's but I think we're using these terms and 304 00:21:56.960 --> 00:22:02.799 we don't really understand the backing behind it. And so the step four piece 305 00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:07.960 right, and so this idea that well, just just think more positive, 306 00:22:07.119 --> 00:22:11.079 but it's so hard to do that and I feel like we haven't made because 307 00:22:11.119 --> 00:22:15.079 I love how you said if you if you're willing to choose, but we 308 00:22:15.160 --> 00:22:18.799 haven't made that choice and that decision to move past where we're at. So 309 00:22:18.839 --> 00:22:22.079 we start going out. Well, I'll think more positive, but you've been 310 00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:26.839 in the negative for so long that that's your like you said, it's it's 311 00:22:26.839 --> 00:22:30.119 your announce your habit. We have to break that habit. But we can't 312 00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:34.519 break a habit unless we make this this decision to move past this and to 313 00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:41.400 accept something else into our life and and in your home. Analogy is awesome 314 00:22:41.519 --> 00:22:45.279 because it takes some time right, because even when you first go into that 315 00:22:45.319 --> 00:22:48.640 and I go to this new house and and you're used to living in the 316 00:22:48.720 --> 00:22:52.559 old house and there's a comparison. Well, this happened and this happened, 317 00:22:52.599 --> 00:22:59.000 and so it takes some time to really just make it feel at home. 318 00:22:59.480 --> 00:23:03.039 And so, and I wanted to bring that up and see in your research 319 00:23:03.079 --> 00:23:07.240 that. Is there a time period that you're seeing from from that, because 320 00:23:07.240 --> 00:23:08.640 I think a lot of people will just give up. They're like, well, 321 00:23:10.440 --> 00:23:12.920 this is no longer comfortable because now your body is comfortable being negative. 322 00:23:14.039 --> 00:23:18.200 So, because there a time period to move from stage three to stage four. 323 00:23:18.440 --> 00:23:21.440 Yeah, the time period is, you know, I would love to 324 00:23:21.480 --> 00:23:26.759 say a specific time, but I can't because it's dependent on uh, willingness 325 00:23:26.960 --> 00:23:30.960 is so huge because, and here, and I'll share the three groups that 326 00:23:32.039 --> 00:23:37.079 didn't heal. Uh, the group who refused to accept their betrayal. They 327 00:23:37.119 --> 00:23:38.839 just weren't having it. They had their story and they were sticking with it 328 00:23:38.920 --> 00:23:42.759 and that was it. They weren't going anywhere. They weren't healing. The 329 00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:48.400 second group was the group that were numbing, avoiding, distracting. They ran 330 00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:52.640 to the doctor, who put them on a mood stabilizer or anti anxiety men 331 00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:56.720 medication, they drank, they did whatever may have made the day a bit 332 00:23:56.799 --> 00:23:59.759 easier to get through, not without a price. They stayed right where they 333 00:23:59.759 --> 00:24:03.400 were. And the third group, uh, this was interesting. This was 334 00:24:03.440 --> 00:24:07.440 the group where the betrayer had very little consequence. So whether it was out 335 00:24:07.480 --> 00:24:11.200 of financial fear, religious reasons, that was a big one, not wanting 336 00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:12.960 to break up a family, fear of the unknown, whatever it was, 337 00:24:14.440 --> 00:24:18.319 um, they just did their best to overlook it. And I only saw 338 00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:22.559 two things with this group. One, a further deterioration of the relationship and 339 00:24:22.599 --> 00:24:27.359 to this group was the most physically sick. Your broken heart can handle that. 340 00:24:29.000 --> 00:24:32.720 And but that's what but that's what people do, because I found, 341 00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:37.559 um that there's so much fear. So what we try to do is just 342 00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:40.599 patch it up, patch it up, patch it up, patch it up. 343 00:24:40.960 --> 00:24:45.759 And what betrayal lends itself to is a complete and utter destruction of the 344 00:24:45.799 --> 00:24:49.000 old, complete death of the old, of the old view, of the 345 00:24:49.000 --> 00:24:55.559 old relationship, in order to rebirth the new. Now, at the very 346 00:24:55.640 --> 00:25:00.160 least, you have an opportunity to rebuild yourself and along that's what I did 347 00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:04.799 with my family. Was Not an option to rebuild with them or, if 348 00:25:04.799 --> 00:25:08.119 the situation lends itself, if you're willing, if you want to and if 349 00:25:08.119 --> 00:25:11.599 the potential is there and if it's anything, you know, aligned with what 350 00:25:11.640 --> 00:25:17.920 you want to do, you can potentially rebuild something entirely new with the person 351 00:25:17.960 --> 00:25:19.480 who hurt you. And that's what I did with my husband. As two 352 00:25:19.559 --> 00:25:23.720 totally different people, we married each other again, new rings, new vows, 353 00:25:23.720 --> 00:25:27.160 new dress and our four kids as our bridal party. Never in a 354 00:25:27.319 --> 00:25:33.039 bazillion years what I have done that if I wasn't totally different and for sure 355 00:25:33.440 --> 00:25:37.680 if he wasn't totally different. But the only way that can ever, you 356 00:25:37.720 --> 00:25:44.480 know, happen successfully from what I've seen, is when you're truly willing to 357 00:25:44.559 --> 00:25:47.960 let go of the old, like in my case. That was the deal 358 00:25:48.039 --> 00:25:51.039 breaker and and we were done. And I was like, all right, 359 00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:53.799 I wasn't counting on being a single mom and but here I am, you 360 00:25:53.839 --> 00:26:00.480 know, and it's it's in that time period where you work on you and 361 00:26:00.519 --> 00:26:03.039 rebuild the new. Here I'm gonna show you something with my hands. Can 362 00:26:03.079 --> 00:26:06.000 you see what my hands here? I'm gonna show you something. You'll never 363 00:26:06.000 --> 00:26:08.599 forget this and everybody watching. You'll love this. When you come out of 364 00:26:08.599 --> 00:26:11.200 a relationship, right here's where you are. Then you come out of a 365 00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:15.680 relationship, now, people are so unhappy, their hearts broken, they feel 366 00:26:15.680 --> 00:26:18.720 so lost and so empty, and the immediately want to find another one. 367 00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:23.119 No, here's what I recommend. You commit to doing the work. And 368 00:26:23.160 --> 00:26:26.960 what happens is, if you do this, starts happening. If you're in 369 00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:29.480 a relationship again, right here, what happens is you do this, but 370 00:26:29.519 --> 00:26:32.240 you don't want to leave this person behind. So then you find you keep 371 00:26:32.279 --> 00:26:36.759 sabotaging yourself. All right, but I like it here whatever, and you 372 00:26:36.880 --> 00:26:40.079 keep doing this kind of thing, but you like it here. So then 373 00:26:40.160 --> 00:26:42.400 you start thinking, why can't they do this? Well, they're not ready, 374 00:26:42.440 --> 00:26:45.640 just as you weren't, and that's why you were here before. Right. 375 00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:49.160 So what has to happen is you need to grow here and stay here. 376 00:26:49.160 --> 00:26:52.799 But if you meet someone down here, eventually you get this, they're 377 00:26:52.799 --> 00:26:55.359 like, oh, what happened to you? And you're like, I'm not 378 00:26:55.319 --> 00:26:59.359 at the least bit interested in you. What happens is, when you're so 379 00:26:59.480 --> 00:27:04.039 firmly committed to being here, this can't help but show up, whether that's 380 00:27:04.440 --> 00:27:08.400 this person who's like I better step up my game to meet the strength of 381 00:27:08.440 --> 00:27:14.640 that person, or you each just go your own way and then this shows 382 00:27:14.720 --> 00:27:17.839 up, because that's where that's where you are now. But what people do 383 00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:22.960 is they're just so desperate to be in another relationship or to patch up what 384 00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:26.559 they had, and they and they stay right here. You know, I 385 00:27:26.680 --> 00:27:30.480 used this analogy. U Uh, and I did it in that Second Tad 386 00:27:30.559 --> 00:27:33.400 X. Do you have post portrayal syndrome? And it is. You mentioned 387 00:27:33.480 --> 00:27:36.200 the house analogy. Here's here's the even better one. You'll love this. 388 00:27:36.799 --> 00:27:41.559 Here's the difference between resilience and transformation. Resilience is restoring, bringing back and 389 00:27:41.599 --> 00:27:45.079 you need that fear every day. Transformation is a whole different thing. So 390 00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:48.880 let's say there's a house and let's say the House needs a boiler and you 391 00:27:48.920 --> 00:27:52.680 get a boiler. That would be a resilience. You're you're patching it up. 392 00:27:52.759 --> 00:27:55.559 Let's say it needs a roof, get a roof. That's resilience. 393 00:27:55.880 --> 00:28:00.039 Here's trauma and transformation. A Tornado comes by and levels the house. A 394 00:28:00.200 --> 00:28:03.839 boiler is not going to fix it and roof's not gonna fix it right. 395 00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:07.720 But here's the thing. You have every right to stand there at the lot 396 00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:11.359 where your house wants dead and say this is the worst thing that's ever happened, 397 00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:14.799 and you'd be right. And you can call over everybody you know and 398 00:28:14.799 --> 00:28:18.079 say, isn't this the most horrific thing you've ever seen? They all agree, 399 00:28:18.160 --> 00:28:22.160 and you have every right to kick and scream and mourn the loss of 400 00:28:22.200 --> 00:28:26.599 your house until you're last day. However, if you choose to rebuild the 401 00:28:26.640 --> 00:28:30.079 House, why would you build the same one? There's nothing there right. 402 00:28:30.519 --> 00:28:36.400 Why not give it everything the old house didn't have? That's Um that's the 403 00:28:36.839 --> 00:28:49.519 beauty of the trauma. It gives you an opportunity for that transformation. Do 404 00:28:49.559 --> 00:28:53.599 you have the next big beat, that world changing? Which? Do you 405 00:28:53.599 --> 00:28:57.200 have a story to tell? You need a website. You need the web 406 00:28:57.240 --> 00:29:03.319 spinners at Webin in with big picture solutions, leaving together S Eo, stellar 407 00:29:03.359 --> 00:29:07.000 web design and Social Media Integrations, you will find yourself developing your latest and 408 00:29:07.039 --> 00:29:12.440 greatest thing idea or telling that next chapter in your story. Why? Because 409 00:29:12.440 --> 00:29:17.240 your audience is ready for it. Looked them up today at Webinit DOT com. 410 00:29:17.279 --> 00:29:30.319 And remember, you're not everywhere unless you're webined. If you're finding value 411 00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:33.920 in this podcast, you should really check out where it all began. See, 412 00:29:33.960 --> 00:29:37.079 I wrote the book moving up stream without a paddle as a guide to 413 00:29:37.160 --> 00:29:42.119 develop the foundation for successful mindset. Learn what I believe to be four of 414 00:29:42.119 --> 00:29:48.119 the most fundamental principles to find success in any endeavor, and if you apply 415 00:29:48.279 --> 00:29:52.559 these principles in your own life, you will indeed find that you can move 416 00:29:52.640 --> 00:30:02.799 upstream with no paddle needed. Get it on Amazon today. So with my 417 00:30:02.920 --> 00:30:07.039 second or just it sounds like when you say it out loud, I've come 418 00:30:07.079 --> 00:30:08.680 to grips with all this and say it allows like wow, that sounds pretty 419 00:30:08.720 --> 00:30:15.480 terrible. But it was a very pivotal moment for me because I began to 420 00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:21.799 understand what exactly what you're saying was this idea that all right, and it 421 00:30:21.880 --> 00:30:25.119 was a very internal work that needed to be done. Like, and you 422 00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:26.640 asked that at the very beginning. Well, if this is if this keeps 423 00:30:26.640 --> 00:30:32.240 happening, and what's what was there that was common besides myself? Well, 424 00:30:32.319 --> 00:30:36.559 it turned out that it was parts of myself that I was finding the commonality 425 00:30:36.599 --> 00:30:41.000 of what was going on and in this idea that the internal is going to 426 00:30:41.759 --> 00:30:45.480 whatever I did on the internals is going to affect the external and so the 427 00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:52.880 rebuilding of that home um started and I was laying the foundation of personal development, 428 00:30:52.920 --> 00:30:56.720 personal discovery. But then when I got into that, I hit exactly 429 00:30:56.759 --> 00:31:00.640 what you're talking about, like well, if I'm gonna do this, there's 430 00:31:00.640 --> 00:31:03.880 pieces of that House that I really love, like that. The master bedroom 431 00:31:03.920 --> 00:31:07.559 was amazing and it was it fit me, was everything I wanted. But 432 00:31:07.039 --> 00:31:11.400 you know, the downstairs kitchen needed some rework and this needed some rework. 433 00:31:11.440 --> 00:31:14.839 And this is really what I wanted this to look like. And if I 434 00:31:14.880 --> 00:31:21.000 can make this perfect house, the house being this perfect Garrett, how do 435 00:31:21.079 --> 00:31:25.720 I what does that look like? And that's when I really began to understand 436 00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:29.920 this, this choosing who I wanted to be and really mapping that out. 437 00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:33.960 And and then what were the relationships that I wanted and really understanding that. 438 00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:36.559 And I love how you were saying your analogy right. I did love it. 439 00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:41.960 When you're elevating yourself to a certain level and you're building yourself and you're 440 00:31:41.960 --> 00:31:47.400 building self, you're you're gonna attract people and Resources and things at the level 441 00:31:47.480 --> 00:31:49.880 that you're at. And then you when you get to that point, and 442 00:31:49.960 --> 00:31:56.319 I think this is what's what's made everything okay with me and my relationships is 443 00:31:56.359 --> 00:32:00.519 that I wasn't comfortable at that level, at the lower level, anymore. 444 00:32:00.799 --> 00:32:05.519 This is this is not comfortable for I've I'm you know, I'm no longer 445 00:32:05.640 --> 00:32:08.599 V W, I'm a that way. So there's a whole different you know, 446 00:32:09.039 --> 00:32:15.160 around there. And so that that whole pieces. Why wouldn't you choose 447 00:32:15.200 --> 00:32:19.279 to to build again, hold on to pieces, that word for you, 448 00:32:19.319 --> 00:32:22.279 if they are in line with that higher person that you're trying to develop, 449 00:32:22.319 --> 00:32:25.960 and I think that's just an amazing analogy. Yeah, and that's where the 450 00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:30.440 mindset stuff comes in, because that's where they question who am I to? 451 00:32:30.599 --> 00:32:34.839 Who Do I think I am to to grow? You know who? Or 452 00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:37.079 this is what I know. It's familiar, even if it stinks. So 453 00:32:37.160 --> 00:32:44.119 this is this is the unknown. So so that's terrifying. I know this, 454 00:32:44.119 --> 00:32:46.000 this is what I know. This doesn't cause a shake up. This 455 00:32:46.079 --> 00:32:50.440 makes me unhappy, this makes me physically sick, but it's what I know 456 00:32:50.759 --> 00:32:58.799 and I find we're so afraid of change that we will stay in the like 457 00:32:58.880 --> 00:33:00.759 that. The third group in the study who didn't heal, you know where 458 00:33:00.799 --> 00:33:05.279 that betrayer had no consequences. You know, I get it, I get 459 00:33:05.319 --> 00:33:09.000 it. There there's there's a risk of Oh, I'm alone, how do 460 00:33:09.039 --> 00:33:13.680 I do this? Or I have to, I have to let people down 461 00:33:13.759 --> 00:33:17.559 around me because, Um, I'm not willing to tolerate this anymore. Whatever 462 00:33:17.599 --> 00:33:22.559 it is, whatever you have to do or move through, and I would 463 00:33:22.599 --> 00:33:25.400 never say what someone should do. Um, you know, I just know 464 00:33:25.559 --> 00:33:29.559 what I personally, what personally worked for me, what I see every day 465 00:33:29.599 --> 00:33:32.079 within, you know, within the institute, and what the what the research 466 00:33:32.160 --> 00:33:39.039 proved. Um, it's it's a beautiful opportunity to that shake up causes that, 467 00:33:39.160 --> 00:33:44.440 you know, psychological earthquake where you you look and you're like, who 468 00:33:44.480 --> 00:33:46.559 have I been? What do I want to do? And and betrayal really 469 00:33:46.640 --> 00:33:51.480 lends itself to creating an entirely new identity. You take the parts you love, 470 00:33:51.680 --> 00:33:54.839 you leave behind the parts that no longer serve and you rebuild, uh, 471 00:33:54.880 --> 00:34:00.359 this amazing version of you that never would have had the opportunity to be 472 00:34:00.359 --> 00:34:04.319 built had that experience that happened, and which is actually what the third discovery 473 00:34:04.480 --> 00:34:08.639 was. Um, there's you know, I had been through disease, I 474 00:34:08.679 --> 00:34:10.559 had been through death of a loved when I was like, you know, 475 00:34:10.719 --> 00:34:16.559 betrayal feels different for me, this this type of trauma crisis, but I 476 00:34:16.599 --> 00:34:22.599 didn't want to assume so I so I asked all my study participants if you've 477 00:34:22.639 --> 00:34:27.039 been through other crisis crises besides betrayal. Does it feel different for you? 478 00:34:27.199 --> 00:34:30.400 Unanimously Instead, oh my gosh, it's so different, and it's so different 479 00:34:30.440 --> 00:34:35.960 because it feels so intentional. So we take it so personally, so the 480 00:34:36.000 --> 00:34:39.840 whole self has to be rebuilt. Rejection, abandonment, confidence, belonging, 481 00:34:39.920 --> 00:34:44.800 worthiness, Trust. They take such a hard hit. So that type of 482 00:34:44.800 --> 00:34:50.199 healing needed its own name, which is now called post betrayal transformation. Originally 483 00:34:50.199 --> 00:34:52.960 I was studying post traumatic growth, which is, if you can magic, 484 00:34:52.039 --> 00:34:54.880 kind of the upside of a trauma, how it leaves you with a new 485 00:34:54.920 --> 00:34:58.679 insight, awareness, perspective. Like, let's say you lose someone you love 486 00:34:58.719 --> 00:35:00.280 and you realize life is short, you know, something like that. But 487 00:35:00.360 --> 00:35:07.440 I was like yes, and that doesn't necessarily cause an entire shattering of the 488 00:35:07.480 --> 00:35:08.800 self. So if I were to give you an equation, it would be 489 00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:16.960 post traumatic growth plus rebuilding the self equals post betrayal transformation. That's very interesting 490 00:35:17.199 --> 00:35:22.440 because I never thought about that way, but it is. It's it is 491 00:35:22.559 --> 00:35:29.280 very different because it is very intentional. It is it. It's very personal. 492 00:35:29.320 --> 00:35:31.199 And then I think that's why it shatters ourselves so much, is because 493 00:35:31.599 --> 00:35:36.719 when the difference is is if someone dies and you're like, oh, life 494 00:35:36.800 --> 00:35:39.920 is short, let's do this, and it's more of a a catalyst to 495 00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:45.679 moving you forward, where that other the betrayal pieces more of a it's a 496 00:35:45.719 --> 00:35:50.840 tearing down aspect. I mean it can be, and I guess more often 497 00:35:50.840 --> 00:35:52.559 than not it really is, because you take it, you do take us 498 00:35:52.559 --> 00:35:58.199 so personally. And that's where I have a friend, he uh, he 499 00:35:58.280 --> 00:36:06.000 runs a journey beyond divorce podcast and he always talks about the his story of 500 00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:12.199 how he felt worthless and how he felt like he wasn't good enough to have 501 00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:15.800 a relationship ever again. And I think that's a common story with people when 502 00:36:15.880 --> 00:36:19.840 it comes to divorce or betrayal. Even in businesses, like you said, 503 00:36:19.920 --> 00:36:22.960 someone still has your idea. You're like, well, I guess I'm not 504 00:36:23.000 --> 00:36:27.400 good enough to have my own idea anymore, and that self talk becomes so 505 00:36:27.679 --> 00:36:31.400 damaging, and so it is a good thing to be aware of that when 506 00:36:31.440 --> 00:36:36.239 you go through betrayal. It's it's a different animal and we have to kind 507 00:36:36.239 --> 00:36:39.159 of look at that as a different animal where your steps now, your four 508 00:36:39.239 --> 00:36:45.559 steps in that process become very important and to bring that awareness so you can 509 00:36:45.679 --> 00:36:52.440 move forward. Yeah, it's it really is a very unique, uh experience, 510 00:36:52.239 --> 00:36:55.880 but it's it's one of those that I'll tell you. I mean, 511 00:36:55.960 --> 00:37:00.920 we see it all the time within the institute when someone moves from those symptoms 512 00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:07.199 of Post Portrayal Syndrome through the stages to that place of post portrayal transformation. 513 00:37:07.639 --> 00:37:15.239 They are so healthy, healed, whole, strong, confident happy. Because 514 00:37:15.280 --> 00:37:20.239 think about it when when you when you rebuild what you know, even something 515 00:37:20.239 --> 00:37:22.039 like trust, right, this was the person, these were the people who 516 00:37:22.119 --> 00:37:27.480 gave you a sense of safety and security. So when that very person is 517 00:37:27.480 --> 00:37:31.360 the one to shatter that sense of safety and security and shatter that level of 518 00:37:31.400 --> 00:37:36.519 trust, like just that alone is a tremendous amount to heal from. So 519 00:37:36.800 --> 00:37:40.480 you know, what what we see is when you've made uh sense and meaning 520 00:37:40.519 --> 00:37:46.000 and rebuilt yourself and your life after that, it's a version of you that 521 00:37:46.039 --> 00:37:52.400 would blow your mind. Then the trust aspect, because that that was you 522 00:37:52.599 --> 00:37:57.000 brought this out earlier. I think too, because even though you rebuild yourself 523 00:37:58.119 --> 00:38:00.679 and you've gotten yourself to a higher place, that doesn't necessarily mean that you 524 00:38:00.719 --> 00:38:07.199 are open to trust other people again. So is in in the in that 525 00:38:07.239 --> 00:38:12.360 process? Do you see that that that healing is working as well, or 526 00:38:12.360 --> 00:38:14.960 is that, is that like a secondary piece or, you know, like 527 00:38:15.039 --> 00:38:16.719 are you purchasing an add on for you, for you to really kind of 528 00:38:17.320 --> 00:38:21.679 because you're healing yourself, but you have to heal the relationships that you have 529 00:38:21.760 --> 00:38:24.320 with others. Yeah, it's it's one of those things and we actually teach 530 00:38:24.320 --> 00:38:30.400 a forestep trust rebuilding process. If you don't rebuild trust, it's like living 531 00:38:30.440 --> 00:38:34.239 half a life, you know, because then you're hesitant to get close to 532 00:38:34.320 --> 00:38:37.800 anybody, to share, to to connect. So it's it's it's so important. 533 00:38:37.880 --> 00:38:39.960 It's almost like, you know, you get Burns on the stove and 534 00:38:40.000 --> 00:38:44.159 you swear off cooking. That's not fair to you, you know. So 535 00:38:44.280 --> 00:38:47.760 it's important to to learn how to trust again, um carefully and cautiously, 536 00:38:47.920 --> 00:38:52.000 you know, Um, and learn to trust in ourselves again, which is 537 00:38:52.119 --> 00:38:57.679 huge, because one of the biggest things that happens with betrayal is not only 538 00:38:57.679 --> 00:39:00.599 do we not trust the betrayer. We don't trust our selves. Were like, 539 00:39:00.639 --> 00:39:01.760 I'm a bright person. How did I not see? How did I 540 00:39:01.800 --> 00:39:07.119 not know? What the heck, where was I? So we lose trust 541 00:39:07.159 --> 00:39:10.199 in ourselves. So it all has to be rebuilt and it can. Yeah, 542 00:39:10.440 --> 00:39:15.679 and it can. Indeed it can. And I hate to just always 543 00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:19.880 bring you know, everybody has a story, but this resonates so well with 544 00:39:20.039 --> 00:39:24.760 me and the journey that I really just literally came out of two years ago. 545 00:39:25.079 --> 00:39:30.519 And and so this whole process, I can attest to it, and 546 00:39:30.599 --> 00:39:34.119 this is more in depth than even I was aware of. Again, so 547 00:39:34.159 --> 00:39:39.480 that this process, like, if I had this tool to apply the principles 548 00:39:39.480 --> 00:39:44.000 to apply to my growth, man, that would have been faster. I 549 00:39:44.000 --> 00:39:47.000 would have been a faster healing and and the learning to trust again. That 550 00:39:47.119 --> 00:39:50.760 was that was huge for me. Um, well, if you then, 551 00:39:50.800 --> 00:39:52.639 if you think in my first marriage, that's what that trust is. Is 552 00:39:52.679 --> 00:39:59.559 What really uh, in my mind, played a major role in destroying my 553 00:39:59.639 --> 00:40:04.400 second marriage because there was trust. There was some major trust issues, Um, 554 00:40:04.480 --> 00:40:07.400 and so that was one of the epiphanies that I had. And that 555 00:40:07.519 --> 00:40:10.719 growing thing is that I need to let go. and not everybody is is 556 00:40:10.760 --> 00:40:15.679 my first wife and not everybody is my second wife and not everybody is you 557 00:40:15.719 --> 00:40:19.840 know Joe Schmowdown the street that did whatever whatever to me, and and learning 558 00:40:19.840 --> 00:40:25.039 to just take people at okay, I give you trusts out the gate and 559 00:40:25.079 --> 00:40:30.079 now it's such huge to either carry that trust on or or really destroy it. 560 00:40:30.159 --> 00:40:31.519 But Trust for me was a big thing. It was that it was 561 00:40:31.559 --> 00:40:35.719 a huge hurdle to overcome. Yeah, it's a huge thing. And you 562 00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:37.599 know, it's interesting when you when you say about how your your your first 563 00:40:37.920 --> 00:40:42.320 experience led to the second. You know, we can spot an unhealed betrayal 564 00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:45.639 from a mile away and that's one of the classic symptoms Um and we see 565 00:40:45.639 --> 00:40:47.440 it in health and work, in relationships, for example. In relationships, 566 00:40:47.440 --> 00:40:52.360 I'll see it in one of two ways. One a repeat betrayal where you 567 00:40:52.400 --> 00:40:55.239 know the face has changed but it's the same experience. We go from boss 568 00:40:55.280 --> 00:40:59.599 to boss, to Boster, coworker to coworker to Coworker, partner to partner 569 00:40:59.599 --> 00:41:01.440 and partner. What the heck is it me? Yes, it is not. 570 00:41:01.599 --> 00:41:07.320 In that Um it's your fault, but there is an amazing opportunity to 571 00:41:07.440 --> 00:41:13.039 learn something profound. Maybe you finally need to learn that you are lovable, 572 00:41:13.079 --> 00:41:16.519 worthy and deserving realizing the better boundaries in place, whatever it is. Until 573 00:41:16.559 --> 00:41:21.519 and unless you do, you will keep getting opportunities in the form of people 574 00:41:21.719 --> 00:41:25.840 to teach that so UN heal betrayal shows itself in those repeat betrayals. And 575 00:41:25.880 --> 00:41:29.000 the second way is, you know, we see people who put the big 576 00:41:29.000 --> 00:41:30.199 wall up and like Nope, in there, done that and not doing that 577 00:41:30.239 --> 00:41:34.199 again, and they think it's coming from a place of strength. It's not. 578 00:41:34.280 --> 00:41:37.920 It's coming from fear, you know, where they're so afraid to open 579 00:41:37.960 --> 00:41:43.119 their heart and to trust because that just was way too painful. So I 580 00:41:43.119 --> 00:41:46.400 mean that's just classic. Yeah, I think you know your wall, that 581 00:41:46.519 --> 00:41:52.760 wall scenario too. I had a very interesting analogy just when we when we 582 00:41:52.800 --> 00:41:55.679 set the boundaries right, and the boundaries are a good thing. I mean 583 00:41:55.719 --> 00:42:00.280 I'm not going to just blow those away because they're very important, but we're 584 00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:06.119 often taught that with boundaries come walls and that we have to put walls up 585 00:42:06.440 --> 00:42:09.920 to set our boundaries, and that's just not that's not it's it's such a 586 00:42:09.960 --> 00:42:15.199 lonely place at that point, because setting boundaries is just kind of giving you 587 00:42:15.239 --> 00:42:20.159 the space that you need to be, you know, for you, but 588 00:42:20.239 --> 00:42:24.880 still allow the social aspect and be able to to integrate yourselves in society where 589 00:42:24.920 --> 00:42:30.679 walls just tend to box you in and now there's no communication, there's nothing 590 00:42:30.679 --> 00:42:35.800 going on. So that was a really good analogy to help me get through 591 00:42:35.800 --> 00:42:38.159 things as well as I can set the boundaries, but and I don't have 592 00:42:38.239 --> 00:42:42.800 to have walls. Yeah, very big difference. You're right, boundaries, 593 00:42:43.440 --> 00:42:50.000 you know, having appropriate boundaries in place has US responding, reacting, behaving 594 00:42:50.039 --> 00:42:52.800 better with others. Wall is just saying I just I don't even know how 595 00:42:52.800 --> 00:42:57.519 to react to response, so I'm just gonna hide behind this wall and choose 596 00:42:57.559 --> 00:43:00.920 not to very different things. Yeah, for sure. Sure, we're getting 597 00:43:00.960 --> 00:43:04.760 kind of close to time. We have a little bit of time, but 598 00:43:04.840 --> 00:43:08.159 I want I want to I know this is going to resonate with people. 599 00:43:08.199 --> 00:43:13.920 I just because, I mean just with Covid I know so many people who 600 00:43:13.920 --> 00:43:17.199 have gone through divorces, lost jobs and all these things based off of this 601 00:43:17.320 --> 00:43:22.519 betrayal aspect and they they feel betrayed, and so I can I know this 602 00:43:22.599 --> 00:43:25.320 is going to resonate with people. So I want one. You mentioned a 603 00:43:25.320 --> 00:43:29.159 little bit about your book. So let's sort of start there, not even 604 00:43:29.159 --> 00:43:34.840 sort of, let's start there and and talk about where can they get them, 605 00:43:34.840 --> 00:43:37.960 because you have you said, we have to right. So what does 606 00:43:37.039 --> 00:43:40.000 one deal with and what's the second one deal with, and how can they 607 00:43:40.039 --> 00:43:45.159 get them? Well, for the basis of our conversation, we were talking 608 00:43:45.199 --> 00:43:50.679 about betrayal and healing from it. So that's all in trust again and, 609 00:43:51.039 --> 00:43:54.599 like I said, I walk you through the five stages of betrayal, from 610 00:43:54.599 --> 00:44:00.079 betrayal to breakthrough, with experiential activities to move you from one stage to the 611 00:44:00.119 --> 00:44:02.719 next, because it's a time where we need support the most but we're the 612 00:44:02.800 --> 00:44:07.199 least likely to seek it. So at the very least you have a book, 613 00:44:07.239 --> 00:44:08.960 you have the audible. I did the the audio, by the way, 614 00:44:09.239 --> 00:44:12.519 Um, and or you have the kindle, whatever it is for you. 615 00:44:12.599 --> 00:44:15.719 So you have it and you have the tools and support that you need, 616 00:44:15.960 --> 00:44:19.000 that you know that you need for that, and it's you can't instead 617 00:44:19.039 --> 00:44:22.159 of just going right to Amazon and getting it, I encourage you to get 618 00:44:22.159 --> 00:44:25.599 it from my this link, because then you get all kinds of goodies too. 619 00:44:25.840 --> 00:44:30.400 So they can find that at the PBT, as in post portrayal transformation. 620 00:44:30.639 --> 00:44:35.440 The PBT Institute, Dot Com, forward slash trust again. Okay, 621 00:44:35.599 --> 00:44:38.000 perfect, if that's the I'm all about the extra goodies. So I will 622 00:44:38.079 --> 00:44:40.960 encourage that and I'll make sure that link is in the is in the podcast 623 00:44:42.000 --> 00:44:45.960 notes and the description as well. So then now they read the book, 624 00:44:45.960 --> 00:44:49.840 but they still need more work done, and so I'm that's what the institute 625 00:44:49.840 --> 00:44:52.920 is all about, is helping people to really get them pass this and define 626 00:44:52.960 --> 00:44:58.400 the healing that they need and and be now progressing forward in life. So 627 00:44:59.719 --> 00:45:01.480 I've Lee is probably the same website, but let's go through that too, 628 00:45:01.480 --> 00:45:06.679 and on the connection for that. Yeah, sure, and I encourage everybody 629 00:45:06.719 --> 00:45:09.400 to take the Post Betrayal Syndrome quiz that we talked about earlier to see to 630 00:45:09.480 --> 00:45:13.960 what extent they're struggling, and they can just find that at the PBT again, 631 00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:17.079 as in post betrayal transformation, the PBT institute, Dot Com forward slash 632 00:45:17.159 --> 00:45:21.760 quiz and and if the institute is a fit for them. Um, just 633 00:45:21.800 --> 00:45:24.840 so you know, I mean what we have there is we have our proven 634 00:45:25.199 --> 00:45:30.880 signature programs that literally walk you through the stages. So you can do that. 635 00:45:30.599 --> 00:45:36.639 Seven we have live daily classes with their certified coaches and practitioners. They 636 00:45:36.719 --> 00:45:40.119 each are trained and certified in the five stages, but they're coming in with 637 00:45:40.159 --> 00:45:45.599 ten, twent, thirty plus years uh in their own area. So we 638 00:45:45.639 --> 00:45:50.559 have coaches that specialize in reconciliation, some specialized in narcissism and chronic pain, 639 00:45:50.840 --> 00:45:54.599 in addiction. And the beauty is there's a listing of classes every day and 640 00:45:54.599 --> 00:45:58.360 you just choose the ones you want to go to. Everything's recorded. We 641 00:45:58.559 --> 00:46:00.559 I'm in there every week doing an open q and a. We have master 642 00:46:00.719 --> 00:46:07.960 classes and the most amazing Um community where it's not the aint it awful club, 643 00:46:07.400 --> 00:46:09.960 it's everybody in there is there to lift an inspire. So it's like 644 00:46:10.119 --> 00:46:13.480 you did that, had that go, would you do? You know. 645 00:46:13.760 --> 00:46:16.159 So the idea isn't to stay there long. It's training wheels until you don't 646 00:46:16.159 --> 00:46:20.639 need them. And you know, I think this is an important piece to 647 00:46:20.679 --> 00:46:23.440 bring out to just real quick, because everybody looks for I mean there's there's 648 00:46:23.480 --> 00:46:29.480 coaches out there for for everything and something will go to a life coach and 649 00:46:29.480 --> 00:46:32.800 and you know, I have branded myself as a mindset coach, but I 650 00:46:32.840 --> 00:46:37.559 would never say that I can take on this, this aspect of someone's life. 651 00:46:37.599 --> 00:46:42.079 This is not what I do right. I'm more of a goal setting 652 00:46:43.039 --> 00:46:46.400 person and we set these goals. But with the trauma and with the betrayal 653 00:46:46.400 --> 00:46:50.079 and things, you need to go to something. You need to find someone 654 00:46:50.199 --> 00:46:53.679 who that's what they do and like here you are who has, you know, 655 00:46:53.760 --> 00:46:58.559 this PhD, this whole study and the thing. So if you want 656 00:46:58.639 --> 00:47:00.440 it, it's like, you know, my dad would always work on the 657 00:47:00.440 --> 00:47:02.599 car. We would do things together and says, you know, you need 658 00:47:02.639 --> 00:47:07.159 the right tool for the right job, and that's exactly what this is. 659 00:47:07.199 --> 00:47:12.920 So if we're looking to get past the trauma of betrayal and all these other 660 00:47:12.960 --> 00:47:16.360 aspects with these wonderful coaches that you have at the institute, that's where you 661 00:47:16.400 --> 00:47:20.000 need to be and that's that. That's the place that you need to go 662 00:47:20.079 --> 00:47:22.039 to find that. And there is the beginning and there is an end and 663 00:47:22.039 --> 00:47:24.599 then you can go to a life coach from that point and say, all 664 00:47:24.679 --> 00:47:29.920 right, I feel good about myself. Now what? And so we can 665 00:47:30.039 --> 00:47:34.480 even and I'll tell you. We have currently two levels, and this is 666 00:47:34.480 --> 00:47:38.039 to get you. They come in at whatever stage. There at typically two 667 00:47:38.159 --> 00:47:43.480 or three and they have symptoms of Post Betrayal Syndrome and as they're in that 668 00:47:43.639 --> 00:47:47.960 stage four, stage five, we're getting ready to release a new level, 669 00:47:49.280 --> 00:47:52.280 and that's for the stage five people, because here's what happens when you're in 670 00:47:52.360 --> 00:47:55.960 this place of post betrayal transformation. You're like, look what I did, 671 00:47:57.199 --> 00:48:00.159 what's next? Here's where you're ready for that new health, level of health, 672 00:48:00.199 --> 00:48:04.960 that new business, that new relationship, and that's where I want to 673 00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:07.239 you know, I am all over that. I mean that's where I take 674 00:48:07.280 --> 00:48:10.119 my thirty years of coaching and and we just go for it. So the 675 00:48:10.159 --> 00:48:15.320 idea as you come in, wherever you're at, moved through along with the 676 00:48:15.360 --> 00:48:22.199 health of the coaches and the community and then the coaches and I really work 677 00:48:22.280 --> 00:48:24.760 with you on that next level, which is just so fun. Yeah, 678 00:48:24.920 --> 00:48:29.480 well, it is. That's that's the fun part, right. That's that 679 00:48:29.639 --> 00:48:34.400 is where everything and that's really in again. Just I can only relate this 680 00:48:34.440 --> 00:48:38.360 to my journey and that that point right there is where it life just begins 681 00:48:38.400 --> 00:48:42.599 to blow your mind. There's so many possibilities. When you can really get 682 00:48:42.599 --> 00:48:45.039 to that point, you're like, Oh wow, this is so crazy, 683 00:48:45.119 --> 00:48:49.199 this is so amazing, and you really love life again in ways that you 684 00:48:49.360 --> 00:48:53.400 never even thought about beforehand. So it's just a whole new awareness, and 685 00:48:53.880 --> 00:48:59.519 so I appreciate that. And and Debbie, it's been such a pleasure talking 686 00:48:59.559 --> 00:49:05.800 to you. This has meant by far one of the most amazing conversations for 687 00:49:05.880 --> 00:49:08.239 me. Again, and I love the podcast because for very selfish reasons, 688 00:49:08.280 --> 00:49:13.320 but again, this is something that just I feel elevated and Nice. So 689 00:49:13.360 --> 00:49:15.280 I know that the listeners are that way. To him, I just want 690 00:49:15.280 --> 00:49:19.079 to say how much I appreciate you taking the time to come on the show 691 00:49:19.239 --> 00:49:22.239 and share your expertise. Thank you so much. Thanks for the opportunity. 692 00:49:22.280 --> 00:49:24.800 Like I said, it's people like you give people like me a voice, 693 00:49:24.880 --> 00:49:30.559 so I truly appreciate it, absolutely so, and everybody listening, if you're 694 00:49:30.599 --> 00:49:34.519 feeling like you need to help, reach out to Debbie please. It's very 695 00:49:34.559 --> 00:49:37.199 important that you know, don't say stuck where you're at. Just move forward 696 00:49:37.159 --> 00:49:40.159 to get past that and go find the light that you want. And I 697 00:49:40.159 --> 00:49:45.000 always thank my listeners for showing up. They always show up consistently and and 698 00:49:45.039 --> 00:49:46.400 that's how we're going to get to a better place and how we're going to 699 00:49:46.400 --> 00:49:50.280 shift our mindsets to be where we want. And so with that, I 700 00:49:50.320 --> 00:49:57.280 will catch you guys on the next episode. Thanks for tuning in. If 701 00:49:57.280 --> 00:50:00.320 you've found value in this episode, the best thing you can do you is 702 00:50:00.360 --> 00:50:04.639 to subscribe, rate or review this podcast. If you would like to further 703 00:50:04.719 --> 00:50:07.599 investigate how you can flip your mindset, feel a free to contact me through 704 00:50:07.639 --> 00:50:14.000 my website at www dot garrett goggins dot com. Can't wait to catch you 705 00:50:14.039 --> 00:50:17.360 on the next episode. m